Farewell For Now, Part 1

Dr. Kade Goepferd: This is Talking Pediatrics, a clinical podcast by Children’s Minnesota, home to the Kid Experts, where the complex is our every day. Each episode, we bring you intriguing stories and relevant pediatric health care information as we partner with you in the care of your patients. Our guests, data, ideas and practical tips will surprise, challenge, and perhaps change, how you care for kids.

Welcome to Talking Pediatrics. I’m your host Dr. Kade Goepferd. Just over five years ago in the midst of a global pandemic, the education team here at Children’s Minnesota was rapidly trying to pivot how we delivered up-to-date pediatric health information to clinicians when the whole world had changed seemingly overnight. We quickly adapted our offerings such as our weekly Grand Rounds to a virtual format, but we wanted a way to get pediatric clinical information out to the community when the information was changing rapidly and clinicians were even more pressed for time to absorb it.

We put our brains together with our marketing colleagues and our resident AV and podcasting guru and the Talking Pediatrics podcast was born. Debuting in August of 2020, the goal of the podcast was to get up to date in relevant pediatric health information to clinicians in a format that was short and easy to digest. We focused on issues that were pressing, like COVID, and common, like asthma, and kept the format to 20 to 30 minutes, which might be about the time of a morning commute or a walk with the dog. With me serving as the anchor host, we invited recurring guest hosts that brought a variety of perspectives to the podcast. Over the last five years, we’ve featured eight different guest hosts and topics from health equity and ethics to simulation, case-based learning and clinical guidelines. This podcast has been, by all means, a great success. We’ve recorded over 180 episodes since our launch.

We’ve reached over 85,000 total listeners from over 30 countries. Our largest population of listeners typically is from Minnesota, but we also have some heavy listeners surprisingly from California. We average 300 downloads a week, and in 2022 we won the Platinum E-Healthcare Leadership Award in the best digital physician engagement category, recognizing the great work of our entire podcast team. And now we find ourselves here at the end of 2025 saying goodbye to the podcast. At least for now. Our team has competing demands that have been gradually pulling us away from the pod, and we want to leave on a high note with the opportunity to relaunch in the future of our capacity changes. But don’t worry, our fans out there, due to the wonders of the internet, you can still go back and listen to all of the podcasts you missed over the last five years. Re-listen to your favorites anytime you want on your favorite podcast platform.

One of the most consistent things I’ve in my five years as host is how eager others are to either start their own podcast or join the podcast in some way. So by way of wrapping up, we’ll be closing with two podcasts. Today’s episode will feature some of our guest hosts and we will also have an episode featuring our production team, letting you behind the scenes of Talking Pediatrics to hear the highs and lows of clinical podcasting before you decide to dip your toes in the water, so to speak. Today on part one, we’ll be joined by our guest hosts that include James Burroughs, Dr. Courtney Herring, Dr. Siva Chinnadurai, Dr. Ian Wolfe and Dr. Bryan Fate. We are also joined by our editor and producer extraordinaire, Jake Beaver, who is recording today behind the scenes, but will be featured in part two when we chat with our production team. Hosts and colleagues, thanks for joining me today on this one of our final episodes of Talking Pediatrics. Let’s start by each of you introducing yourself. Tell us your name, your segment name, and what your role is here at Children’s Minnesota.

Dr. Bryan Fate: I am Bryan Fate. I do the Crack the Case with Dr. Fate segment, which is a case-based mystery podcast. So we give you a little bit at the beginning and we kind of go through approaches to general pediatrics topics for hopefully a surprising diagnostic ending. Typically aided by residents who are learners who saw some of the patients, so they’re real patients that typically we saw in clinic and I am a general pediatrician at Children’s. I work with the residents, which has been a joy that was passed to me from Kade, and I also do some public health work with vaccine hesitancy as well.

Dr. Siva Chinnadurai: I’m Siva Chinnadurai. I am a pediatric ENT and facial plastic surgeon at Children’s. My segment is called Specialty Spotlight with Siva and it’s where we dig deep into some of the really specific details around some of the subspecialty care that we offer here at Children’s and that children may access around the country. Here at Children’s, I am the medical director of pediatric ENT, facial plastic surgery and audiology and the Associate Chief of Surgery.

Dr. Courtney Herring: I’m Courtney Herring. My segment is Evidence-Based Charm: Guidelines with Courtney and its focus really is around creating space to share succinct descriptions of up-to-date clinical guidelines for relevant pediatric diagnoses. And my current role is, I am a pediatric hospitalist by trade, but I also do a couple of other things as a pencil pusher at Children’s Minnesota, including the medical director of Utilization Management.

Dr. Ian Wolfe: My name’s Ian Wolfe. I am the host of a Question of Ethics and we get to explore ethical issues that impact care of pediatrics. And so I get to explore many of the different types of ethical issues that might arise or would provide important information for caring for kids and families here at Children’s Minnesota. I’m the director of ethics and one of our clinical ethicists.

James Burroughs: James Burroughs. I’m the senior vice president of government and community relations and also the chief equity and inclusion officer at Children’s Minnesota. I was proud to host the equity and inclusion otherwise known as the Equity Suite segment of Talking Pediatrics and I enjoyed that tremendously.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Well, thank you all for reintroducing yourself to our audience so they can recognize your voices. I’d love to know next what drew you to podcasting? Why did you want to join the Talking Pediatrics team and take this on?

Dr. Bryan Fate: I joined because I offered to write music for Kade’s initial podcast and Kade was kind enough to ask me to do my own segment as I’ve done music for teaching for residents in the past. So making catchy little jingles about Meckel’s diverticulum, the Diver Ticky Blues was the name of that song. So initially it was music and then I was asked to do a podcast and I really love case-based podcasts and kind of thinking through what I would do in the moment if a patient showed up like this, what would I order? What exams would I do? I didn’t see that we had a segment like that, so I was able to make one.

Dr. Courtney Herring: The challenge, the unknown of podcasting, it’s not something I’ve ever walked or ran in a foray to try something at the caliber of a podcast, but you dip your toes as a clinician off and on with presenting to bigger groups and you really enjoy the space of sharing, sharing education, sharing experience. Podcasting is like the best of all of these. It’s a shared personal experience, but from a clinical standpoint, it’s really providing, again, in my case, up to date relevant information to people of all walks in clinical life from ambulatory all the way to rehab for our pediatric patients. And I think that’s just so important to get it out there.

Dr. Siva Chinnadurai: I thought the podcasting world or Talking Pediatrics specifically was an interesting way to pursue education and outreach. In my world as a subspecialist, I’m always so fascinated by what my colleagues do, the pace of innovation, the pace of change, and this seemed like a really creative way to bridge that gap between providers in the community and that rapidly changing pace of innovation. This is a new format to reach out and bridge some gaps and do some education.

James Burroughs: The honest answer is Kade Goepferd drew me into it by saying, you’re going to do this and this is what we want you to do around equity inclusion. So it was a forced feed originally, a voluntold feed originally. But on a serious note, once I learned more about it, I was excited to do a couple of things. One is learn more about the clinical side of pediatrics from Kade and other docs and conditions, and also to participate in how to infuse and integrate that with my work of equity inclusion by bringing on some amazing guests who could tell us a lot about not only how equity and inclusion applies to them personally, but how they were integrated that into the work of serving our patients and families. So although I was brought on kicking and screaming at first, I really learned to enjoy it and learned a lot during the process.

Dr. Ian Wolfe: Similar for me, I mean one is that I was asked to do it and I said yes. The second was that my goal and our aim here in Department of Ethics at Children’s is to provide more of a preventative ethics lens, meaning that how do we get information like as Siva said, a way to get education out to other clinicians about how to navigate ethical questions that come up in practice to hopefully help give more confidence for clinicians to navigate it, but then be able to provide better patient experience as well.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: And I think I’ll chime in here as well with, I mentioned it in the introduction that really we were looking as an educational team to get information out more quickly than we could with a planned grand round series in shorter, more digestible segments. I did not have to be the host of this podcast. I think I was up for being the host because they needed someone and I listened to a lot of podcasts. At the time I was listening to a lot of the Daily to keep up with the COVID pandemic and Michael Babaro and just thought, man, if I could sound as smooth as that guy. So I think it was a medium that I was a fan of and was curious to try out and really excited about how we could really rapidly get this information into the ears of the clinicians who needed it. So as clinicians or as hospital leaders who were new to the world of podcasting, what surprised you most about podcasting that you didn’t know about before you started doing this?

Dr. Courtney Herring: The surprises of podcasting, it’s not just one. I’ll say what really I want people to take away is it is a team effort, the massive amount of work to go into a refined and polished product to truly provide what your vision is isn’t just you. I am such a small piece of the pie and it’s made me be grateful and humbled at the same time to learn from people who have experienced not just as hosting, but also who are doing all of the behind the scenes work to make this such a beautiful product for people who are out there just looking for something not only interesting, but again, so relevant in what we do every day in health care, especially in pediatric care. It’s just, I mean, can’t even, there’s so many people to acknowledge I definitely want to, but I’ll hold myself back. I just want people to recognize that I am such a small numerator of the entire denominator, and I’m okay with that because I’m so proud of what we’ve put out.

Dr. Bryan Fate: I would say how much editing goes down hopefully, as you do more and more podcasts. So I think you get more comfortable with the structure and the format, but really Jake and our production team do a really amazing job of making everything sound fluid and cutting out the ums and the buts and the strange mouth noises that happened during recording. You have a skilled production team that’s helpful. I don’t think you need it, but I’m always amazed by how much Jake can turn out something that’s less polished into something that really shines.

Dr. Siva Chinnadurai: I was going to say the same thing, but I don’t know if you can use the phrase strange mouth noises twice in the same podcast. I agree with Brian how approachable it was. I think when you’re thinking about it before you do it, it seems like there’s a big barrier, but what we are expected to and hopefully brought to the podcast is this clinical lens, a real spirit of inquiry and being able to connect with people and pairing with a great production team really lowers a lot of the technical barriers, which was a huge blind spot for me and for others. And the other thing, when you’re talking about being as smooth as Michael Barbaro, one of the things that worried me is how do you make something sound super polished and super refined and still come off as authentic in the moment when you have those conversations? So I spent a lot of time when I was first starting preparing and hyper preparing for episodes and create that, but what I found out pretty quickly is if you get engaged and you have a human conversation, it just flows. That was wonderfully surprising for me.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Really just echoing what a lot of you said, I had no idea all of the work that went into doing a podcast, that was so surprising to me all of the time and effort that Jake and others have put into the recording and editing of this podcast. And I don’t think people realize what this sounds like before that. Everything from sound levels to pauses to the, we’ll say it again, strange mouth noises, all of that gets taken out and sounds so smooth, but it’s also the production team that books the speakers and coordinates all of our schedules because this isn’t our day job, so we’re all doing other things and deciding what to release when, and the pacing of how we can get things done. We launched as a weekly podcast, and that was so ambitious. We eventually slowed ourselves down to every other week, but just all of the work that went into it was really surprising to me. So that leads into my next question. What was the hardest thing about being a host on talking pediatrics?

Dr. Siva Chinnadurai: I had a lot of experience in education, public speaking, and I felt like that set me up to feel a little more comfortable coming in. But what I found out is that I don’t know how to do that really close to a mic, and so I had to adopt my body language the way I throw my hands around when I talk and move my head back and forth. I would alternate between not being able to be heard on the mic and then blowing out the production team’s ears by talking too close to the mic all in the same episode. So just kind of adapting my way of expression to fit the format.

Dr. Ian Wolfe: Probably keeping the episodes under 20 to 30 minute mark was my biggest challenge. Ethicists aren’t, I guess, known for their brevity, although we do try. But I mean, I was fortunate to of course get to interview people who I thought were very interesting, and I think at one point I said, no, we’re going to need an hour to talk and you can just cut it down. And then I looked over at Jake and he was like, I don’t know how I’m going to cut this down. So that was.

Dr. Bryan Fate: It’s all too good.

Dr. Ian Wolfe: Yeah, it was a challenge.

James Burroughs: Hardest thing in the beginning was I beat up on myself by not being a clinician. I was like, man, I don’t know what to ask or I don’t know what I should be doing. I don’t take care of patients. But what I realized was the folks that I interviewed from the clinical side and also nonclinical side, just wanted to know the things that I knew or just talk and have conversations. I had some great conversations with the president of the McKnight Foundation Tonya Allen, and we talked about health care as a philanthropic strategy by which alleviated some of the social ills. We call them social determinants of health in the community. So I got a chance to talk to Malik Rucker, who’s running V3 a nonprofit, got a chance to talk to Tanya and Yinka, who are our children’s staff and some amazing nurses during some great stuff around clinical solutions, but building equity right into it. So I got a chance to learn a lot from folks there. And I sold myself short as I answer your question about not knowing as much about clinical stuff, but I realized that I could learn that and did learn it along the way and people taught me and I learned a lot from them as well.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: I’d love to hear from each of you one or two favorite podcast moments that you had during your time as a host.

Dr. Siva Chinnadurai: What I found is a common curve that always maybe like what Ian was saying, kind of threw me off of my mental script is just the passion that everyone we interviewed just brings to their work, taking care of kids. At some point in every interview, we kind of cracked through, hey, this is the newest drug or the newest treatment or whatever it was to get to that core of what makes that person tick. And just seeing the passion and those deeply human moments that motivate them to go so deep and so far in the care of their patients. That came through with everybody I was talking to at different points in time and that it was really inspiring and kind of threw me off of all of the really academic questions I had prepared to ask them.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Yeah, I would share a couple of favorite moments. I think it’s okay to play favorites because one of them involves my son. So we did an episode midway through one of our guest hosts, Dr. Gabi Hester, did some book club episodes where she would bring different people in with a different focus to record book clubs. And we had the idea to do a book club episode with kids, where kids would tell us their favorite books. And so I volunteered my son Sam to record on the podcast, and it was just so fun hearing his little voice. He’s now in sixth grade in middle school, about to turn 12, and I still like going back and hearing his little voice that doesn’t sound like that anymore. On the podcast, one of my favorite moments from that podcast was Dr. Hester asked him if he had any advice for people about reading books, and he looked right at me and said, yeah, don’t buy books that you don’t plan to read. I felt so shamed and yet seen in that moment as our house is filled with books. And I would say beyond that, just getting to interview people who I really admire. I started a Talking Pediatrics Trailblazer series kind of midway through and got to interview Jana Shortal, who’s one of our local TV news anchors who I really admire and consider a friend, and interviewed some of my mentors that I worked with over the years in pediatrics, got to interview Governor Walz and some other politicians. And I think that has been really fun to get to interview people that I really look up to and admire.

Dr. Courtney Herring: A couple of highlights, and this is not in rank and it does not overshadow anyone I do not mention, but some of the ones I had the most, again, awe-inspiring moments with and or just chill, joy sitting across from them. One, I’ll go back to 2024 in a subtitle of Coffee and Conversations, “Let’s talk about sepsis with Dr. Gabi Hester”. It was so easy. We sat, and again, our director, Jake Beaver can talk about how we went way over time and spent so much time chatting with nuance when we just really got to get to the point. And when we relive that and it put it together, it was still just as fun to listen to it the second and third time. And it brought me back to a really comforting space, like I’m in front of a fireplace, truly with a cup of coffee.

It was a really warm moment and I enjoyed, again, listening to it at multiples. Another one that I just really had such a great experience with the guest, even though there’s so many, is with Dr. Arumugam who is a gastroenterologist from Minnesota Gastroenterology locally, but works here at Children’s Minnesota. He did this really relevant talk on tiny shiny and which is really about button battery ingestion. And I think there’s just not a lot of highlighted podcasts that have covered that. And it’s a pertinent thing as you go into any holiday and there’s small pieces around the house, but as parents and clinicians recognize, it is a danger 365. And so the way he labeled out the clinical side, which was beautifully delivered, but then got into the physics and chemistry that for us who are academic and geeky at nature, and I’m calling myself out. I mean, I had a moment where it was really, you could follow it still easily, but it was beautifully delivered and I took a lot of information away from it. I would recommend those, but please, I encourage you to listen to all of my guests. They are phenomenal and they were obviously invited for reasons.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Alright, we’re going to have to play favorites Siva. What are three favorite episodes of yours that you recorded that everyone should write down right now and then go back and listen to if they haven’t already?

Dr. Siva Chinnadurai: Demystifying pediatric anesthesia. That was great because it’s an area that’s just so important to work we do, but is also really sheltered from the outside view. So shedding light on that and then doing that with my friend Megan Clinton was really cool. That was also the first episode I recorded, so doing a topic I knew a little bit about with somebody who I knew really well, really helped ease me in and make that transition into podcasting easy and get that information out there. I also did a episode with Lane Miller about pediatric lymphoma and leukemia and just again, understanding how people come to work and what they bring to work, the passion, the enthusiasm, the emotion that they bring to work, to do really hard things and learning about that pace of innovation and just the transformative care that’s happening. It was probably the most educational episode for me. I think I learned the most from that of any episode that I did. Looking at our cardiac program with Lisa Howley was a great insight into how these really important and big programs build from the ground up and how you tier that out and build communities of health care providers to really care for kids in an organized and collaborative way across the region, across the country, to make sure kids have access to the right services at the right time and the right place.

Dr. Ian Wolfe: It’s hard to pick three. I like them all equally, but since I have to, one of my favorite was navigating LGBTQ plus trauma and spirituality through a narrative ethics lens. And Cody Sanders is just a fascinating person to listen to and read his work. So I was pretty honored to be able to interview him, which is why I sort of lost my place along the way because I was sometimes trying to shuffle my papers and look for a question, but then I was so captivated. My next one, I think my conversation about disability with Jaime Konerman-Sease. She’s a professor and ethicist over at the University of Minnesota and has done a lot of work in disability ethics and just to be able to provide some guidance for clinicians to talk about disability in prenatal counseling or just counseling in general as it can be kind of a difficult topic to sort of stumble over.

And then finally, I think one of my favorite ones was Alyssa Burgart, who’s a ethicist and anesthesiologist from Stanford. And we talked about the ethics of interacting with ICE. It was a very pertinent episode and didn’t take a political stance, but just talked about the ethics that are required when you get involved, where you have professional obligations that may or may not conflict with legal mandates. And that’s always such a hard space in health care because there’s a lot of conflict that can happen, especially in our emergency rooms who are used to that. And it can be very challenging for staff to navigate. And with some of the requests that were coming out, there was, I think a really a need for folks to understand where their professional ethical obligations are and where it intersects there. Hopefully that helped people feel more comfortable, more confident to navigate those from day to day.

Dr. Bryan Fate: I was very proud of the episode with Patsy Stinchfield, who led our COVID charge, our task force during the pandemic at Children’s has done so much for vaccine hesitancy for getting kids protected from infectious disease her whole career, very captivating, very motivational, just to be around, could definitely run for office should she ever choose to do so, and really enjoy the passion that she brought to an issue that is becoming more and more important as hesitancy grows.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: And side note, I think Patsy Stinchfield may be our most featured guest on the podcast. She gets some kind of SNL gold jacket or something. I know I’ve interviewed her several times. You’ve interviewed her. I think a couple of other hosts have.

Dr. Bryan Fate: Yeah, you don’t even have to prep. She’ll just take the wheel.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Take the car where Go Pat

Dr. Bryan Fate: Wheel. It’s always fun place.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Okay.

Dr. Bryan Fate: Yeah. I guess number two, a recent episode I did with Dr. Notermann about fever in returning traveler, just because as a clinic that sees a lot of folks who are currently going to different countries in Africa and the Middle East, and we see a lot of very interesting infectious disease differentials, which can be totally flabbergasting sometimes. So I think that was very pertinent to our own clinic and I think for living in a very international city, which we live in Minneapolis. And finally the neutropenia podcast, which I think was maybe two years ago with Caleb, but I think also goes into the role that race can play in normative values for labs, white people in Ohio being the benchmark that we sent for a lot of people, which is unfair and causes lots of red flags in labs which are not clinically relevant, particularly in this case regarding neutropenia, which is in so many patients. I also like that song the most if it’s kind of new order electronic-y, I actually use the template for that song that we recorded with my band For Realsies and different lyrics, but

Dr. Kade Goepferd: That’s now number one on the billboard track, I assume.

Dr. Bryan Fate: No. Okay. But one day, perhaps, probably not,

James Burroughs: It’s going to sound corny or quirky, but I’m a big fan of Kade, Dr. Goepferd. The shows that they were able to do, and I can’t pick one off top because I like them all, were able to bring some reality and some feeling and some humanity towards being a pediatrician. And that was cool for me because the thing about it is sometimes we isolate doctors or put them on a pedestal and they’ve not seen somebody you can talk to, relate to or be involved with. So the thing for me was listening to Kade’s shows, I saw them in a way that they could see a humanity to bringing that care of medicine to the world. And that was important to me. Talk about gender affirming care that that’s for all genders, that’s not for just LGBTQ, that’s for everybody. I think maybe one other show that I liked a lot that I did was with Tonya Allen, the president of the McKnight Foundation.

She also was able to bring that humane treatment to philanthropy about how important health equity and healthcare was to being for the philanthropic work of the McKnight Foundation as well. I just had fun with my guests. Part of my asking questions was about stuff about them as a person, what made them more human, what made them tick, what their purpose was, because folks need to see that and hear that. It’s not all about the technical aspects of what we do sometimes, it’s about the humanity. So those are the shows that I think I enjoyed the most.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: It was really tough for me to cull down my three favorites over five years, but I call out the Trailblazers episode with Jana Shortal. That was in June of 2021, I think it was the first trailblazers episode that I did. And what I love the most about that one is it’s a very storytelling type format, much more than the other podcasts. And the conversation went really well. And like I said, it was really great to do that with someone who I admired so much. The second one is an episode called Breaking the Binary, Expanding Gender Identity and Expression. That was from April of 2022. And I got to do that one with Nick Alm, who’s a local leader in the inclusion and equity space and identifies themself non-binary. And that was just a really great conversation. I remember having that conversation in Jake’s office is where we recorded that one actually.

And that was a really good conversation. I think for anyone who hasn’t listened to it, I think you’d learn a lot. So go back and listen to that one. And then recently there was an episode called Navigating Screens with Tweens and Teens from December of 2024 with Erin Walsh, who subsequently has written a book on that same topic. And I really admire Erin Walsh. I’ve heard her speak, she’s done conferences for us. She’s done Grand Rounds for us. She’s come and spoken at my kids’ elementary school. I really love how she talks about that topic. And I think just as a parent myself, I learned a lot from that episode and picked up some good tips as a pediatrician for how to have those conversations with young people. Alright, we’re wrapping up here. So as quickly as you can, maybe just in one sentence, what advice would you give to other clinicians or hospital leaders who want to start a clinical podcast?

James Burroughs: The biggest thing is just do it. A lot of times we in hospital administration will talk about something for a long time. We’ll plan it for a long time. We’ll find out all the things that won’t work about it and then be hesitant to try it. By us just reaching out and trying Talking Pediatrics, we made some mistakes along the way. We learned some things along the way. I learned a lot about a 20 minute show, should I be talking for 45 minutes and broken into two parts afterwards. I learned a lot about pace of conversation and how that works. And it doesn’t need to sound like a cryptic interview. And also too, the main thing at the end is I learned that the work, especially the work that I do around equity and inclusion, is built into great pediatric care. I knew a little bit about that going in, but able to talk into folks about how they saw the work that I did as being valued was important.

Opened my eyes tremendously about, man, okay, this is part of strategy. This is part of the way we’re going to provide continuously improved services for our patients and families by providing equitable care, and this is how we can have a dialogue about it. And also, I think the Talking Pediatrics model we use wasn’t a boring and academic podcast. It has some fun to it, some flavor to it, and also some knowledge to it. So that’s what I enjoyed most about it. So I’d say advice is just do it. Learn from your mistakes along the way and you’ll get better.

Dr. Ian Wolfe: That’s one thing I would say is whatever information you’re wanting to get out, try to format it into a sort of story format. We all love information, but if you are getting it into that format, people will really take it away. And I think that’s one thing I really liked about how Talking Pediatrics.

Dr. Courtney Herring: Do it, period, but pause. I think for people who are motivated and naturally inquisitive, like most of us out here in health care, there’s so much we can provide. It’s not redundant. I promise you. You can find your vision that’s going to be unique and still very relevant, but recognize that you alone, depending on what your vision is, may not be enough. So really think through how it could look for you, how it for time management, but also, and what really your objective is. Is it you alone versus guests? And there’s so many variables that come into podcasting. So I would say find a good team. If you’re doing it through your own organization or your own private practice, make sure you have wonderful support because ultimately this should be successful for you. And we want this to be an amazing experience for you or any of your guests. So just remember, it’s a beautiful product, but I am a small numerator of the large denominator.

Dr. Siva Chinnadurai: It’s also really important to know who your guest is when you pick a topic, if you pick something that they’re really passionate about or that you’re really passionate about, and you can make that human connection the rest of the episode writes itself.

Dr. Bryan Fate: Authenticity is similar sentiments earlier in this episode, but where you get kind of lost in the conversation. You can have your notes in front of you, but you don’t really need to follow them as much as you thought. Kind of getting swept away is so much more compelling. So the storytelling with authenticity and from an emotional perspective, you want to be moved as a listener, no matter what you’re listening to. And I put in the plug for music there where I think some of my favorite podcasts, even if there’s nothing to do with music, have between segments, there is something that grips you. It could even be ambient music or music just has a place, I think, in every podcast to tie everything together neatly and to pull at a different string of your heart. And I think that there’s room for that in any podcast that you do a

Dr. Ian Wolfe: Good catchy tune,

Dr. Bryan Fate: Good catchy tune.

Dr. Ian Wolfe: Like Crack the Case.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Yeah, exactly. I think that the advice that I would give is you don’t know what you don’t know. So surround yourself with people who know what they’re doing. This podcast was so successful by podcasting standards. I mean five years close to 200 episodes, 85,000 plus downloads an average of 300 a week. That’s a successful podcast. I didn’t do that. I just was the voice talking to people. The people who did that, and really, I would say the person who did that sitting to my left, Jake Beaver here. Jake knew podcasting. He knew what to do. He knew what we needed. And that’s why this podcast was so successful. We had marketing involved. We had a showrunner that could plan out the schedule and the episodes and help think through how we put a script together and all of those things. And I think if you want it to be good, it’s not just as easy as grabbing your iPhone and a microphone and inviting someone over.

I think you really have to get folks with you who know what they’re doing and can help you make it successful. I’ll just add thank you to all of you for joining as guest hosts. There was no way that I was ever going to be able to do all of these episodes, and I knew right away we had to have guest hosts because we needed more people to share the load of both interesting topics and interesting conversations, different voices, different guests, different focuses. So I’m really grateful that each of you gave your time to this podcast and made it what it was. So thank you for joining the podcast. We will be back with part two with our production team to wrap up the pod.