Talking Pediatrics Trailblazers: Dr. Marc Gorelick

Dr. Kade Goepferd: This is Talking Pediatrics, a clinical podcast by Children’s Minnesota, home to the Kid Experts, where the complex is our every day. Each episode, we bring you intriguing stories and relevant pediatric health care information as we partner with you in the care of your patients. Our guests, data, ideas and practical tips will surprise, challenge, and perhaps change, how you care for kids.

Welcome to Talking Pediatrics. I’m your host, Dr. Kade Goepferd. Today we are bringing you another Talking Pediatrics Trailblazers episode, where I have the chance to interview trailblazers whose working careers have had significant impact on kids health and pediatrics. Joining us today is none other than Dr. Marc Gorelick, current president and CEO of Children’s Minnesota, who will be retiring from this role later this summer. Since December of 2017, Dr. Gorelick has led Children’s Minnesota with vision, integrity and passion, leaving a legacy of innovation, advocacy and unwavering commitment to the health and well-being of children.

Dr. Gorelick’s professional journey began with a Bachelor of Arts and history from Princeton University, a doctor of medicine degree from Duke University, and a master of Science and Clinical Epidemiology from the University of Pennsylvania. His medical training includes a pediatric residency at Children’s National Medical Center in Washington, DC and a fellowship in pediatric emergency medicine at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. Before joining us at Children’s Minnesota, Dr. Gorelick served as executive vice president and chief operating officer of Children’s Hospital of Wisconsin. He has also held faculty positions at leading institutions, including the Medical College of Wisconsin and the University of Pennsylvania. He has held leadership positions in the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Board of Pediatrics, and the Society for Pediatric Research. In 2018, he received the Jim Seidel Distinguished Service Award from the American Academy of Pediatrics section on emergency medicine, and in 2024 he authored the book Saving Our Kids: an ER Doc’s Common Sense Solution to the Gun Crisis.

Dr. Gorelick, it is a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. I know that was a lot to read through, but I feel like we’re going to talk a lot about your career and some of those details are really important. But thanks for being here and it’s been so great to work with you the last seven years here.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: Well, thank you. The same is true for me and it’s a pleasure to be here with you.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Alright, well let’s get started with, I get asked this question all the time and I think it’s an interesting one. Did you always know you wanted to be a doctor? There’s a conspicuous degree in history on your resume, so I’d love to hear about your path into medicine.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: For as long as I can remember, I have wanted to be a doctor. I was around medicine, my mother was a nurse and honestly, where I grew up in a middle class Jewish, New York suburban household in the sixties and seventies, I’m not sure I actually had career options. I’m not sure it’s something I chose, probably more something that was expected of me fortunately was a good match. Otherwise I’d probably be keeping some therapist wealthy. But that said, I mean I’ve always known I wanted to go into medicine, but I’ve always also known that there’s a difference between training and education and I always thought medical school was the training to be a doctor. College was a chance to be educated to be a human being, and so I really wanted to be able to explore something different.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Interestingly, both of our mothers were nurses, but you and I had a very similar path that way. My undergraduate degree was in biology, but I also had a secondary degree in religion and took a lot of philosophy and religion classes in undergraduate, went to a liberal arts college for the reason of just wanting to learn, and learn about the world. So knowing that you were going to go to medical school, then how did you decide on pediatrics and then emergency medicine within that?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: I may have been primed for pediatrics a little bit. The other medical person in my life was a relatively small family, but a cousin who’s actually my father’s cousin, so functionally more of an uncle. Fred Mandel was pediatrician in Boston, associated with Boston Children’s. He just retired last year at age 85 and he’s somebody I always looked up to and he did really cool things. He had a partnership with a Native American tribe on sudden infant death and he took care of most of the Roma kids in Boston and just a really interesting guy. So that may have set me up for it, but in medical school there were lots of things I liked, but I can still remember when I started my pediatrics rotation my second year, I was on the oncology team and one of my very first patients was this little kid, four or 5-year-old named Robbie, and he was my patient for most of the month. He was in for his what I guess was then standard 28 day induction treatment and didn’t matter how crappy he felt, he was always up for a game when I was rounding with him. Never tried to get any secondary gain and that was my experience. That combination of resilience and sort lack of guile just really drew me in.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Yeah, I completely understand. Obviously as a pediatrician myself, my adult internal medicine rotation at the VA, that really turned me for sure into pediatrics. I was already headed that way. Not everyone’s cut out to be an ER doc. So once you kind of decided on pediatrics, how did you pivot to emergency medicine?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: Yeah, well, there are things about it that really drew me in. I really liked the balance between diagnostic work and therapeutic work. You do a lot of both. The other thing is medicine’s always a team sport, but that feeling of being a part of a team is so in your face there mean the physical proximity, the constant interactions among the interdisciplinary team members I just found really exhilarating. And then there are things about emergency medicine, like hospital medicine. We’re not defined by the conditions we take care of. It’s really more about the system of care we practice in. And there were things about it that I think define emergency medicine that I turned out to be pretty comfortable with. One was the ability to make a decision without having all the information you might like to have, is clearly something that we deal with in emergency medicine all the time. I think it’s also served me well in leadership and people mistakenly think that you don’t have a patient relationship like you do in primary care or taking care of somebody with chronic illness. I had a patient relationship with every family that I saw.

You have to establish it very quickly. You have to gain trust in a way that makes them comfortable opening up to you with information that’s sometimes sensitive or difficult and then to follow your recommendations when you’re done. I was comfortable with that, so I think that served me well.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: My next question was about your path to leadership because again, not everyone who goes into medicine ends up being a CEO of a hospital and it makes sense to me that the decision making, the relationship building, that those would be good foundational skills. But where was the turning point where you decided that doing the clinical medicine wasn’t enough and you wanted to really move into the leadership and executive leadership side?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: To be clear, that was not a planful thing. This is not like I finished my fellowship and I thought, okay, well in 10 years I want to be A, B or C. But even from early on, I always had a significant part of my practice. I mean it was clinical practice but also clinical research and that was really driven by the desire to have a broader impact.

If I take care of a kid with asthma, I take care of a kid with asthma. If I can figure out a better way to diagnose or treat asthma, I can help other kids with asthma beyond the ones that I’m taking care of. And so that’s what motivated me to devote a lot of effort to that. And then when the opportunity came around to consider leadership roles, it was the same thing. It was having a broader impact. So I stopped clinical practice about 10 years ago. The good thing about emergency medicine is you can have a Monday to Friday 60 hour a week job and still do clinical work on weekends and holidays. I got to the point where I didn’t feel I was doing enough to maintain the skills the way I thought my patients deserved, and so I decided I either had to do more, which would’ve meant working every weekend, which I wasn’t willing to do. And so I decided I needed to stop. My last day of clinical practice, one of my colleagues said to me, ‘Hey, how many patients do you think you’ve seen?’ I thought, interesting question, and I’m a little bit of a math nerd. So I did a paper towel calculation and I came up with somewhere around 40,000,

Which sounds like a big number, but it took me 25 years to impact 40,000 kids. We see almost 170,000 kids each year at Children’s Minnesota. If I can be part of getting that system of care right, I can impact a lot more people. And that’s really was my motivation behind a research career and ultimately a leadership career, is just having that broader impact. It’s different impact, but that worked for me.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: As you know, I can completely identify with that drive to have impact. I think for you it was research. For me, it was education. That’s really what drew me into education. I didn’t plan to have a career in education. It just felt like a way to have a broader impact. So speaking of impact, you have had an impact on several areas at Children’s and in our community and in pediatrics, and I’d love to dig a little deeper into them. So as an executive leader, I know you faced a lot of challenges, a pretty unique challenge that you faced was leading Children’s through the COVID-19 pandemic. I’d love to hear a little bit more about your particular journey as a CEO and leading our hospital through that time because you are the only one who had that experience as CEO. I know there was a leadership team and people who were doing a lot of work behind the scenes and I was in several of those rooms, but it was definitely a unique time to be a leader.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: There were a few things about it that I think were challenging. One is a lot of what you put your effort toward as a senior level leader and executive level leader is it’s about strategy. It’s very forward facing strategy. The definition I like is what do we need to do as an organization to thrive given the circumstances and the environment that we’re operating in and are likely to be operating in. So it’s very forward looking, what’s coming, how do we position ourselves to succeed in the future? What’s the path to get there? We were not even looking ahead a week for a long time during COVID. I mean it was heads down constant survival mode, which we did because we had to do it. It’s not the fun part of the job. And there is a future coming. So it was hard to sacrifice that forward looking. I think the best example of it is in February of 2020, the executive team had put together a proposal to bring to our Board in May to transition to Epic as our electronic health director. We’d done a lot of work to analyze that. We decided that was the right decision for the future and then a month later, we had to put everything on hold and we’re finally coming back to it five years later. So that kind of constantly having to sacrifice the future, looking ahead for the present was challenging.

The other thing is, and it reminds me a little bit of some of the things we’re dealing with now, the current policy environment with COVID, we didn’t even know what the rules were. We didn’t know anything about this disease. We didn’t know how it behaved. We didn’t know how it spread. We didn’t know how to control it, how to treat it, and the rules of how we were dealing with it at the local and state and federal level, were constantly shifting and not knowing even what the rules are. As I said, I’m comfortable making decisions with incomplete information. It’s a little harder when you don’t even know what the framework is to make the decision in, and that’s how we were operating for a while.

But I think a couple of things that I learned from that. First is I learned immersive, stay calm. If you freak out during a code, you’re not going to help the team perform any better. You’re not going to help the patient.

So stay calm and be clear. I thought about this a lot. One of the best lessons I learned for both clinical care and leadership was from one of our nurses when I was a fellow in Philadelphia. So early on in my time there, I was running a code and I’m standing there at the head of the bed being as calm as I could be, which is cool, and watching the monitor and watch the team and I’m telling, do this, do this. And she said to me, she said, Marc as a charge nurse, she said, Marc, tell us what you’re thinking. It will help us help you better. What she meant was, why are you ordering this medicine or what do you think? How are you interpreting what’s going on? So I learned to think out loud, okay, the airway’s good, breathing’s okay, blood pressure’s low. We tried this, this happened. Now I’m going to try this. And so being clear about what you’re thinking and trying to do that during COVID, why are we doing some of the things we’re doing, because nobody knows what’s going on. It can seem really random. So being clear and explain your thinking. And the last thing is just be patient. Everybody’s going to react to this sort of uncertainty bordering on chaos in very different ways. Not everybody’s going to be their best self.

I’m not going to be my best self all the time. Giving people a little bit of grace I think was also important to get through that.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: So during the COVID pandemic in 2020, we also faced another unprecedented event here at Children’s Minnesota, which is that our hospital here in Minneapolis was blocks from the buildings that were up in flames during the protest, and blocks from where George Floyd was murdered by police. And I wonder, you’re in the middle of leading our hospital during this pandemic, and then we have this political unrest or social uprising that’s taking place again, just blocks from where we are. And I love to hear your thoughts on leading through that, but also how did that change or influence your leadership going forward, or did it?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: I think that was the first time that I really became conscious of the fact that as a leader of a large organization here, Children’s Minnesota, I’m not only a leader of the organization, I’m also a civic leader. And that’s true for all of us. Whether it’s a not-for-profit, a for-profit, my responsibility is to make sure that Children’s thrives and can fulfill our mission. We can’t thrive if our community is not thriving. And so all of us have a role as civic leaders. And it was pretty clear that this was not a time when our community was thriving.

And I, shortly after George Floyd was killed again, just blocks from here, I reached out to a group of other CEOs in town that I knew were interested in issues of equity and inclusion because they had also signed on to this national CEO action pledge on diversity and inclusion that I had signed on to back in 2017. And I said to them, look, we’ve all committed to advancing this within our organizations. That’s the pledge. We need to do something to advance it in our community and we need to make a statement about this and make a commitment to actually trying to work on it. And it quickly spread beyond that group. We got about 60 something CEOs to sign on and some good things came from that. I think that was one of the things that helped spur the impetus of the Minnesota Business Coalition for Racial Equity, for example. And I think we saw some real change. Now, some of those folks have now pulled back on some of those commitments, but I do think at the time it was this idea that I have a responsibility to our organization, the people who work here, the people we serve and the community we’re in, all of those things.

The other thing is, and you probably remember this, some of the conversations we had, there’s a lot of divisiveness. I heard from people who you might remember at the time we had some off-duty Minneapolis police officers who helped supplement our security team. I heard from people who said, you have to get rid of those Minneapolis police officers. I don’t feel safe with them in the building. And I heard from an equal number of people who said, you need to keep those Minneapolis police officers. I don’t feel safe if they’re not here.

I think one of the things that I recognized, if I could wax philosophical for a moment, it’s a little bit like the way our government is structured in that what we think of as why do we have a republic. Leadership is not about serving the needs of the majority because the majority will always figure out how to take care of itself. It’s protecting the interests of the minority. And in those deliberations, really thinking about it in that framework, how are we making sure that we’re protecting the more vulnerable that we have here at this time, knowing that we can’t serve everybody in the same way that they want. And that shifted my thinking a little bit too.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: I really love the way that you describe that transition for you of being a leader at Children’s versus Children’s and you by nature of being the president and CEO being a leader and a part of our community. And I think for me, as someone who’s been at Children’s for 20 years, you’re my third CEO that I’ve worked under, that has been probably one of the biggest transitions that I have seen is in Children’s, not just leading itself and providing outstanding care to the kids that walk through our doors, but really seeing Children’s as a community asset and an integral part of our community and aligned with our vision of being every family’s essential partner and raising healthier kids, an entity that is really committed to kids’ health, period.

So I wanted to dig into that a little bit more. One of the things that you touched on that I’ve always admired about you is kind of this unwavering commitment to kids health and really a lot of that, as you mentioned, has been centered around concepts of equity and inclusion. For those who aren’t familiar under your tenure, our equity and inclusion department as it currently exists was essentially launched. Our executive leadership team and board of directors is the most diverse that it’s ever been. We founded and launched the region’s largest exclusively pediatric gender health program. We’ve been a human rights campaign Healthcare Equity Index leader with a perfect score of 100 for the last four years, we were named one of Modern Healthcare’s top diversity leaders in 2023. I wonder, a couple of things. One, do you know or can you identify where that drive for inclusive and equitable care comes from for you? And then what advice do you have for other leaders who are trying to lead right now with those values and principles, especially given the current political and policy environment?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: I think it comes directly from my clinical experience. I mean, I like to say that as a pediatric emergency physician, I had a front row seat to all the inequities that we have in society. And it’s impossible to sit down with all of those people I’ve sat down with one-on-one hearing their life story, seeing their circumstances and all the different ways that they may have suffered from discrimination and various forms of exclusion to recognize that it’s there.

And then some people become cynical and they complain about people who abuse the ER and that kind of thing. And then some people get motivated to try to make a difference. And I’m fortunate to have been one that got motivated to try to make a difference, but it’s based on what I saw over all those many, many years.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: And as sort of that internal compass maybe has been challenged as there’s been, certainly initially post George Floyd, there was challenge and pressure to lean in, which I saw a lot of leaders sort of maybe leaning in in words, but not an action. And one thing I’m proud of at Children’s is that we have done both. But now with pressure in the opposite direction, as you mentioned, there are leaders pulling back. And I wonder, as a leader who I don’t see pulling back, how would you advise or what would you say to other leaders who are struggling to stay on their commitments?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: For me, it’s how do we fulfill our mission? That is part of our mission is being every family’s essential partner and raising healthier kids. And when we say every family, we mean every family. And that means identifying what every family needs and helping them get it. And that’s true whether it’s within our walls or helping. We can’t fix all of societies inequities, but we do have a role to play in addressing them. The other is, I think recognizing it’s not a question of doing something versus not doing something. Not doing something is actually an active choice. It is doing something versus doing nothing. And if you think that you can fudge the issue by not doing something, you’ve actually made a statement.

And I think just recognizing that for leaders who might want to say, oh, I’m just not going to muddy the waters. Well, you’ve actually made a choice to keep the waters muddy.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Right. I want to talk a little bit about public health advocacy. You mentioned your research in the past. It’s been a large part of your career. One of the things that you have done as CEO is really get involved in legislative advocacy. You’ve been up at the Capitol helping to pass laws, improving mental health for kids, including universal school meals, banning ethnic care discrimination, making Minnesota a trans refuge state, and then improving funding and access for pediatric mental health. I know for you a particular area of focus has been gun violence, and we did a podcast specifically on gun violence and the book that you authored. And I wonder, again, that emphasis on public health and then maybe the focus on gun safety and what led you there and why that’s kind of become a cause for you to champion.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: I think all of us as pediatricians are a little bit primed for this. First of all, prevention is sort like the core of what we do, right? Anticipatory guidance, vaccines, screening, all of that. It’s

Dr. Kade Goepferd: All public health essentially.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: And advocacy is a form of prevention.

And we also advocate for our patients individually. We advocate with the insurance companies when they deny care, we advocate with the schools when they have needs. We advocate within the health system when they’re trying to navigate that. So I think pediatricians are kind of primed for this a little bit. How do you go from the micro level to the somewhat macro level? And I think just recognizing the influence that policies have on the kids that we’re trying to help is what motivates me to say, I can fix things here, but if I can actually get upstream and prevent things, I think that’s important for me also as a leader. I mean, I’m in a privileged position. I’ve been entrusted to lead this organization that comes with a certain responsibility. To the extent I have knowledge, I should be using it in a way that takes advantage of that platform to advance those issues.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Yeah. I am so grateful that you feel that way. Not every hospital CEO, even in children’s hospitals, feels the same way and I’ve been really proud of our hospital and of you for taking that stance and really standing up for kids’ health in so many different ways.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: Well, thank you. I will say that I’m fortunate that we have a Board of Trustees that supports that. I know that sometimes gets in the way and it’s not an accident. I mean, we’ve educated them about the importance of social determinants, the importance of public policies on what we do. And so I am fortunate to be supported in doing that kind of advocacy.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Alright. We’re going to close with a few, maybe peeling back the layers or sort of advice or words of wisdom since you’re ending your career here. What advice would you have for other pediatric clinicians who are considering a career in health care leadership or pursuing a path in executive leadership in pediatrics?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: I’d say the first thing is ask yourself why you’re doing it. If you’re doing it because you think the title is cool, that’s probably not a great reason. If it’s about being able to make a difference in a different way, whatever that way is, I think that’s great. And then especially at the executive level, most of the impact of what I’ve done is not going to be felt for a long time. You don’t get that immediate impact the same way you do when someone comes in the emergency department, they have a gash on their head, I give them stitches and 45 minutes later they’re skipping down the hall with a Popsicle. Right? That’s pretty immediate positive reinforcement. You don’t get a lot of that necessarily.

So are you comfortable with that? And then the other advice I would say is don’t worry too much about preparing. People say, oh, you read my resume. I don’t have a MBA or something like that. Clinicians are problem solvers. Administration, leadership is problem solving.

So you can learn some of the things you need to apply those in a different way, mostly by experience. I mean, I learned what I know about finance because I agreed to be on the finance committee of our faculty practice, and that’s how I learned about budgeting and stuff. So don’t worry too much about the credentials. If you are motivated to make a difference in a different way, if you’re okay with the fact that you may not always get the positive reinforcement you want right away, jump in and say yes to an opportunity and see if it works for you.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: I agree completely, and I think that that advice about playing the long game when it comes to change is one of the biggest adjustments that I saw when I moved into leadership. And probably one of the things that I find hardest to translate to those who are not in leadership, that we can’t just flip switches and make change happen really fast in a hospital or a patient care setting on a large scale. It takes time and investment and change doesn’t happen overnight. And that can often feel really frustrating to people. And so that’s been not only being comfortable with that as a leader, but also translating that to the teams or the people who you’re supporting because they often want that change a lot faster.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: Correct.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: So kind of along that sort of advice, what do you wish that we understood better about your role as CEO? Or what misconceptions do you think people have maybe of you, but I think just more in general of what the job is or isn’t.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: One of the misconceptions that I struggle with the most is the idea that because we’re a not-for-profit, that we don’t have to think about finances.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Sure.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: I used to take it personally with people say, well, you only care about the money. It’s not all I care about, but I do care about the money, not because I care about the money, but because money is required for us to be able to serve patients and families. And I’m glad that I can worry about it so that you can go about your job and take care of patients. But this idea that somehow that it’s wrong to think about the money. In an ideal world, maybe that wouldn’t be true, but in the world we live in, it’s a reality what in which people understood sometimes as a clinician, the only thing I ever had to worry about was what was best for the patient right in front of me. As CEO, I have to worry about all 170,000 kids and families that we see, all 6,000 people who work here, and try to balance across all of those. And there is not a single thing that is ever going to meet all of those needs equally. It’s just never going to happen. That doesn’t mean that I don’t care about all of those 170,000 patients and their families and all the people who work here, but the reality is that you’re balancing a lot more interests. And that may be the hardest switch from being a clinician where you’re so focused on the person in front of you appropriately so to thinking about people who aren’t in front of you and a lot more of them, and you’re never going to get it right for everybody, but it’s not from lack of caring or trying.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Yeah. One idea, I want to pressure test with you is that what I have seen, and you and colleagues like our chief medical officer as they’ve transitioned roles, I think sometimes there’s this misconception that if you’re the executive, if you’re the CEO, if you’re the president, that you get to make the decisions. And what I have seen is that our executive leadership team, more than decision makers to me feel like advisors. They feel like people who are letting the leaders who are kind of closer to the work and feeding into their leadership, they’re really the decision makers. And you all are advisors and part of that may be advising against or for something, but I think there’s this misconception that you walk into a room and tell everyone, we’re going to do these five things.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: Yeah. I’m just sitting around writing executive orders. No, it’s not the way the world works. No, you’re exactly right. I mean, I think the decisions that we make tend to be more those strategic decisions.

What are we going to focus our resources on? Over the next 10 years try to offer the most differentiated experience for patients and families and staff in the community, and what does that look like? Now, how do we do that? I don’t know, but there are people who do know or who will figure it out, and so really helping set the direction. But I’ve likened it to, as you know, I play an instrument, I play the tuba. In a brass quintet, the tuba player, I don’t get the melody, but I get to set the tempo. I can speed up or slow down the down beats, people tune to me. So I set that tone and then the trumpet player is like, they know how to play the trumpet, set it up so they can do it. And I can give them some advice about we should speed it up or slow it down a little bit, but go for it. You’re the expert.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: No, I really appreciate that. Alright, this is a big question to maybe close with, but I’d love to kind hear your thoughts as you are entering this transition in your own career. You transitioned out of clinical medicine into leadership and now you’re transitioning out. What are you most proud of? Or when you look back and talk to your kids and your grandkids about your career in medicine, what will you hold as the things that you feel like you have pride in or accomplished?

Dr. Marc Gorelick: It’s a little bit unfair. It’s like asking who your favorite kid is, which I won’t put you on the spot and ask you that. I think I have a lot to be proud of. I’m proud to have been entrusted with the opportunity to lead this organization as it enters its second century in this community. And to whatever extent I’ve been able to set us up to get through some challenging times that we’ve talked about and position us for success in the future. If in 20 years if I have grandkids and they can come to Children’s Minnesota, I’ll be pretty proud of that.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: I think that’s definitely something to be proud of. And as I mentioned, I’ve had a 20 year career here and I’ve always been very proud to work at Children’s Minnesota, but the Children’s Minnesota that exists today, the one that has sort of bloomed and blossomed under your leadership is one that I’m particularly proud to work for. And so I just can’t thank you enough for your leadership.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: That is very kind. I appreciate that very much. It means a lot coming from you.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Thank you, Dr. Gorelick, for your service, to our community and to kids. And thanks so much for joining me on this podcast.

Dr. Marc Gorelick: Thank you.

Dr. Kade Goepferd: Thank you for listening to Talking Pediatrics. Come back next time for a new episode with our caregivers and experts in pediatric health. Our showrunner is Cora Nelson. Episodes are produced, engineered and edited by Jake Beaver and Patrick Bixler. Our marketing representatives are Amie Juba and Krithika Devanathan. For information and additional episodes, check us out on your favorite podcast platform or go to childrensmn.org/talkingpediatrics.